Chasing Fred Claire

Chad (00:04.874)
about this that or the other thing. It's gonna be nice and smooth. It'll make you sound like butter on the end of this, I promise.

Brian Johnson (00:10.373)
Hehe

Fred Claire (00:11.185)
Just make me sound like my friend, Vince Scully, and that's good enough for me.

Jasper (00:11.529)
I'm out.

Brian Johnson (00:15.589)
That's right.

Jasper (00:15.758)
That's pretty high standards, yeah.

Chad (00:17.396)
Yeah, I'm gonna have to look for my Vince Scully filter for that one. Alright guys, are you ready? Here we go.

Fred Claire (00:17.511)
Yeah.

Jasper (00:21.049)
Yeah. Yes.

Brian Johnson (00:21.158)
Hahaha. Yeah.

Chad (00:52.334)
Are you going to start reading, Jasper? What's going to happen here?

Jasper (00:55.609)
It was you mate. We might as well redo the thing. You didn't look properly at the script I think. It was you. That's okay. First fail. That's alright. First fail of the day.

Chad (01:00.295)
It was...

Chad (01:03.744)
It was me you're supposed to be reading this thing. Okay

Chad (01:10.369)
Un momento.

Jasper (01:13.962)
At least Fred's had a chance now to get acclimated to our beautiful intro.

Chad (01:18.658)
That's too easy.

Chad (01:24.066)
You can tell Fred we haven't done this.

Jasper (01:36.093)
Have you got the Trello on Chad? Yep, good.

Chad (01:37.602)
Yep. Nope. I got it.

Chad (01:42.466)
I was just looking to the, yeah, you're good.

Jasper (01:42.705)
so we can restart everything.

Chad (01:52.422)
Alright, are you ready? I think I am. I'm not sure, we'll see.

Brian Johnson (01:55.705)
Yep.

Jasper (02:00.295)
Oh my.

Chad (02:15.97)
Hey, listener, welcome to Chasing Talent. That's talent chasing for you, Jasper, where we bring real world stories from the fields, courts, and pitches of major league sports and offices of corporate talent. It's our job to amplify those hidden stories in finding, retaining, and motivating the best talent in the world because no team exists without great talent.

Brian Johnson (02:41.905)
Hi, I'm Brian Johnson, former Major League player and scout.

Jasper (02:45.313)
I'm Jasper Spongart, journalist and filmmaker.

Chad (02:48.082)
and I'm Chad Sowash, Recruitment Industry Veteran.

Jasper (02:51.545)
Yes. And welcome to episode four of talent chasing. I should get the name right at this podcast by now. With a very special guest. I'll take you through a short bio. Fred Claire is commonly viewed as one of the most respected people in the game of baseball, originally from James Town, Ohio. Fred started this career like me in journalism before being hired by the Los Angeles Dodgers in their PR department.

He's worked his way through the ranks. Fred was named as a general manager of the Dodgers in a time where I wasn't nearly there born, 1987. And he was thrown in as a GM during a crazy time for the fabled Dodger franchise, but won the World Series in 1988. He was instrumental in creating the Dodger Blue brand, which is now known all around the world. If you look at my background, there's a Dodger cap right there.

Fred is also a cancer survivor and a supporter of the City of Hope. He's authored a book entitled Extra Innings, Fred Clare's journey to the City of Hope and finding a world championship team with proceeds going to City of Hope. In summary, guys, I think I can safely say he's a far more interesting person than any of us. So we can't cover everything, Fred. You've accomplished, I think, too much. But if we can start with your journey from a journalist to a GM.

Brian Johnson (03:58.717)
Hahaha.

Jasper (04:08.645)
That to me is just amazing. Um, but how did that happen? Fred.

Fred Claire (04:13.537)
It happened really and basically because of my love for sports. It happened because growing up in a small town in Ohio, just absolutely loving competing. We Jamestown, Ohio, a very small town. There were only 30 people in our class. So we didn't have a football team, but basketball was

the sport you can imagine, Southern Ohio, Midwest, basketball was the game. Our town was 1500, I think the gym seated 1500, so everyone was there. And my biggest goal was to be a guard on the Silver Creek Vikings high school team. So it was a love of sports and I knew early on.

Jasper (04:45.201)
Mm-hmm.

Jasper (04:55.684)
Hehe

Fred Claire (05:10.329)
I was very passionate about it in playing and following. My parents were wonderful. I remember going to my first major league baseball game in my teenage years at Crossley field. My brother was a great fan of the St. Louis Cardinals. So we always competed on everything. So I didn't take the Cardinals. I took the local team, the Cincinnati Reds. So if you want to know the lineup for the 1948 Cincinnati Reds, I can recite that for you.

Jasper (05:26.501)
Okay.

Jasper (05:39.139)
Hehe

Fred Claire (05:40.089)
and not miss the player. And as I went on, I knew that because of sports, that it was, I thought at one point that it would be coachy. I just wanted to be connected to sports and to the game and to the games, and particularly basketball and baseball. And as fate would have it, along the way, two things happened. I discovered,

Jasper (05:56.818)
Mm-hmm.

Fred Claire (06:09.881)
journalism and writing as a possible avenue. And I discovered that my talent level wasn't going to take me beyond the junior college level. So those two things combined. And so after junior college, I went on to San Jose State, graduated with a degree in journalism, worked in the newspaper field for 10 years, ultimately a job for the Long Beach paper.

Jasper (06:20.351)
Hehehehehehe

Jasper (06:36.441)
Hmm?

Fred Claire (06:39.785)
covering the Angels in 1968, and then taking on the Dodger Beat in 1969. Again, as fate would have it, in 1969, the Dodgers had an opening in publicity, and I was hired as the publicity director in 1969, a notable day, not because I was hired, but it was the very day that man first walked on moon. I don't know how all those things relate.

Jasper (07:08.321)
There should be a connection there.

Brian Johnson (07:10.128)
I'm going to go to bed.

Fred Claire (07:10.281)
So I went from publicity director to vice president of public relations and promotions when the wonderful Red Patterson left the Dodgers to become the president of the California Angels, then advanced to executive vice president and then advanced to executive vice president and general manager. And then once Fox took over the Dodgers, I was fired. So that was the...

Jasper (07:29.682)
Hmm?

Fred Claire (07:40.209)
That was my 30 year journey. As Brian knows, everybody gets fired in the game. And I didn't see eye to eye with Fox then, and I don't see eye to eye with Fox now. So it was a perfect divorce. We definitely were not meant to be together on any level in any regard. But I think back to 30...

Jasper (07:46.097)
Hahaha!

Chad (07:46.454)
Yeah.

Chad (07:53.746)
Amen, brother.

Jasper (07:54.674)
I don't think you're alone in that sense.

Fred Claire (08:07.053)
incredible years with the Dodgers and the more important again as Brian Wells knows when you're no longer deeply involved in the game it's the connections, it's the friends, it's the love of the sport and so I just feel very blessed to have had a long career once I left the Dodgers or the Dodgers left me.

The one thing that I wanted to do was to share my experience. And I first went to USC and helped launch a class, sports business in the media. And then a friend of mine from Dodger days, Bill Schumart at Long Beach State asked me to be involved in starting the sports management graduate program at Long Beach State. And then my last assignment, I had the really unreal honor.

Jasper (08:46.991)
Mm-hmm.

Fred Claire (09:03.545)
teaching the first sports business class ever at Caltech where I can assure you the students are smarter than the teachers and that's not even a contest. So I continue with an involvement in education, in helping young people who have an interest in wanting to be a part of sports. That's what I wanted to be. That's what I was able to be.

Jasper (09:11.11)
Hehehehe

Jasper (09:18.032)
Yeah.

Jasper (09:28.637)
Hmm.

Fred Claire (09:31.133)
And the only way that I was able to reach that was to do to friends, instructors, inspirational people. So I know how blessed I have been. I'm happy to pass on whatever I can do to help instruct and encourage others.

Jasper (09:49.893)
I mean, that's it's absolutely amazing. And I remember the first time we ever spoke. Uh, I think we spoke for about an hour and a half and I. I vividly remember learning so much about baseball in that hour and a half, but not just baseball, also the lessons that you then can relay onto the way that you live your life. Um, but I want to pivot back for a second, um, because you were a journalist covering the Dodgers before you became involved with the Dodgers. Um, and I just, I just.

Because every time I think about scouting and I think about, you know, talent management, all that sort of stuff, I think what sort of lens does that person have on the game? Well, you had a very interesting lens, to me at least, a similar lens that I have as a journalist. So you're looking at stuff from a journalistic perspective. But I'm curious, Fred, how did that help you later on as you became a GM? Did that lens shift at all during that time? Or how do you view that?

Fred Claire (10:45.725)
Just for an interesting question, because I look back on my own career as the became the sports editor of the Pomona paper, which was a local community paper in Southern California. And incidentally, as Brian may know, with a lot of wonderful colleges, Cal Poly Pomona with a great baseball program, Claremont College, Pomona College. So.

My main job really, a great part of the emphasis was not being with the Major League team. It was covering local sports and then being in Southern California had the also the opportunity that on a Saturday to go in to cover USC football or Sunday to cover the Rams or certainly to be covering the Dodgers and covered in fact.

Jasper (11:41.201)
Hmm.

Fred Claire (11:44.305)
I think on my 24th or 25th birthday, it aligned with the Dodgers first World Series game in 1959. So, covered the Dodger World Series in 59. But I wasn't that close to the Dodgers other than one of many local riders covering the Dodgers. So, I saw it at a distance. But all of that changed as far as...

being really involved in the game. In 68, I had covered the Angels. Bill Rigney was the manager. It was a great group of guys, Jim Fragosi, who became a friend, the late Jim Fragosi, a wonderful man, Bobby Knopf, Buck Rogers, many really, at a very young age, great people to be around. But then came 1969.

when I had the opportunity to take the Dodger beat. So I go into Dodger Town, which is an opening to a whole new world. And I'm there and the way Dodger Town is constructed, everyone is together. The front office, the players, the minor league people, the minor league coaches. So I immediately had a firsthand view.

Jasper (12:43.909)
Hmm.

Fred Claire (13:10.181)
At the top, Walter O'Malley, Peter O'Malley, Al Campanis, Bill Schweppe, Red Patterson, legendary people, Walter Alston from Small Town, Ohio, and immediately we connected and I became a great friend. Getting to know everyone. And in 1969, there was this up and coming...

young minor league manager who had just managed Spokane and he and I became very close immediately in the spring of 1969. His name was Tommy Lasorda and my relationship with Tommy was immediate. Tommy and I, we were immediately, we were very close. Of course, Tommy tried to get close to all the media people. That was part of who Tommy was.

Jasper (14:07.377)
Hehehehe

Fred Claire (14:10.133)
That's hard. We developed a true friendship to the point where at one point I said to Tommy, I said, Tommy, you know, I had played a little high school baseball. I said, I'd like to take infield with your team, the Dodger team. 1969. So I'm 33 years old. So one day shortly after that, I'm getting on the bus, the team bus.

Jasper (14:26.821)
Hmm. Fff.

Fred Claire (14:37.649)
because I'm going to go to Orlando to cover the Dodgers and the Twins. And so Tommy comes up to me and said, Hey Fred, I'm getting on the bus. He said, come back out. He said, I thought you said, we've got Spokane, we've got a game with Bakersfield today. He said, I thought you said you wanted to play with us one day. I said, Tommy, I didn't say that. I said, I said I would like to take infield one day.

Jasper (15:06.045)
Yeah, yeah.

Fred Claire (15:06.505)
He said, okay, you chicken shit. He said, you get on that bus. This is the motivation that Tommy Lasorda get on that bus and never mention it to me again. I may look mild, you do not want to challenge me. I came off the bus and I said, okay, where do I get my uniform? He said, go down and see Jim Mewie in the Miner Lake Clubhouse.

Brian Johnson (15:10.393)
Hahaha

Fred Claire (15:35.717)
and get your uniform. So I go see Mui. I come back in uniform. He says, okay, here's Spokane playing Bakersfield, field number one, practice field at Dodger town. He says, okay, go down the right field line, warm up. I did. I come back and he says, I said, okay, I'm loose. He said, okay, go coach first base. And I said, La Sorda, you chicken shit. I didn't come here to coach first base.

first base. Okay pal, okay. All this is well documented. He said the next minute you go in and replace Bobby Valentine at shortstop. And so I did. Coming up to bat, they've got a left-hander. Looks like he's throwing about 100 miles an hour to me on the mound for Baker's Field. Tommy's on the bench with the umpire Billy Williams and he said, wait till you see this guy Billy.

Jasper (16:11.869)
Hehehe

Fred Claire (16:33.397)
He's out of Stanford, we paid $100,000 for him. I stepped into the box, true story. I had to look fairly good in my uniform because the young Baker Show catcher said, you were with the big club last year, weren't you? I said, hey, just help me throw the ball. And this left-hander immediately somehow knew my weakness. He threw a fastball right over the heart of the plate.

I swung and missed three times and Billy Williams, the umpire said to Tommy, they paid that guy $99,999 too much. I stayed in the game, the whole game was shortstop and as fate would have it, we were running out of pitchers. It was going to end after the seventh inning to begin the seventh inning for Spokane. Steve Saugy, who had been a famous quarterback at USC and was a catcher, he doubled.

Jasper (17:12.475)
Hahaha!

Brian Johnson (17:13.511)
Yeah.

Fred Claire (17:31.625)
and I'm coming up. And so there's now a right hander on the mound. Somehow he gets a pitch on the outside part of the plate and I hit it softly to right field. I thought, if this ball falls in, I'm now there's a big crowd around the practice field. Unfortunately, the guy came in and made an incredible catch. So that was the end. That was the beginning of my relationship with Tommy.

Chad (17:50.924)
I'm out.

Jasper (17:57.755)
Ehh

Fred Claire (18:01.037)
and the end of my career as a minor league player. So, it kind of is, I guess in some way, I haven't thought of it in these terms, but a synopsis of who I was. I mean, seeing myself with a love for the game, seeing myself as someone who loved competing and having that.

Chad (18:05.431)
So.

Jasper (18:21.637)
Hmm.

Fred Claire (18:31.009)
identity and I like to think through the years that the players always knew that I wanted to be one of them to the degree that I wanted to be our team to be competitive. I wanted players who were wanted to play as hard as they could every out every inning of every game. And that's really what

drove me in my career as a general manager in terms of trying to identify guys who were just absolutely passionate about the game.

Chad (19:13.102)
So Fred, I think you just literally lined out that, you know, you, you were a relationship kind of guy, right? You're a no bullshit, no chicken shit kind of guy too. I love that. Um, but at the end of the day, you were not the stereotypical GM of a major league baseball team. You climbed the ladder as you'd said to PR through, you know, Whittier daily news and Pomona, uh, and, and got into the dot the Dodgers organization.

But does someone with a journalist and PR background generally have a great shot at being a general manager for Major League Baseball team? Or was it just right place, right time, and the relationships paid off?

Fred Claire (19:53.565)
Well, you know, it was right place, right time, but I'm certainly old enough. If you go back in history, and two of the people, the many people that I really respected when I was a young guy, when I was with the Dodgers before becoming the GM, were Harry Dalton of the Milwaukee and the Angels, and Frank Cashin of the Mets.

It's interesting. It shows the evolution. I think both Harry and Frank came from a newspaper background. But when I joined the Dodgers and became as a really almost a one man publicity department, grew close to Walter Alston, to Monty Basgall, to Red Adams, to some of the great coaches.

Jasper (20:43.685)
Fff

Fred Claire (20:53.649)
in the history of the game. So when 1987 came about and Al Campanis made an unfortunate and you could even term it tragic appearance on Nightline, Peter O'Malley called me and said, Fred, you have to take this job. He knew that I knew everyone. I knew every scout.

Jasper (21:07.941)
Hmm.

Jasper (21:17.117)
NNNN

Fred Claire (21:20.697)
I knew every minor league player. I knew every minor league coach. I knew all of the major league people. I knew the other general managers because Al Canis would invite me in a very small staff to go to the general manager meetings. So people may have made a point of that. The fact is when I became the general manager of the Dodgers, I had 20 years experience in the game. I didn't.

Jasper (21:49.39)
Yeah.

Fred Claire (21:50.609)
I didn't walk off a newspaper beat. I had two years experience with Walter O'Malley, with Al Campanis, with Bill Schweppe, with Walter Alston, with Tommy Lasorda, with Danny Ozark, with Roy Hartsfield, with so many people who were giants in the game. So I wasn't intimidated. I became the general manager in 87.

Jasper (21:52.773)
Hehehehehe

Jasper (22:12.69)
Mmm.

Fred Claire (22:19.977)
Our, uh, our, to start at 87, our team in 86 had been 16 games under 500. Our team in 87, when I took over, was destined to be 16 games under 500. So I knew one thing. I wasn't there to stand still. I was going to do it with all my heart and all my soul. And if they fired me, in fact, when I took over the one thing I said to Peter, I said, Peter, I'm honored.

Jasper (22:38.365)
Hmm.

Fred Claire (22:47.793)
The only thing I ask for is full, total, complete responsibility. Because if they fire my ass, I want it to be for my reasons. I, I have managed to the game that I way that I would want to play the game. I'm going to give you everything I have every single day.

Jasper (22:55.89)
Hmm.

Chad (22:55.954)
Amen.

Brian Johnson (22:55.973)
Hahaha

Brian Johnson (23:09.105)
Fred, there's a thousand questions I could ask you. I really appreciate you going into detail here. The O'Malley family made the Dodgers amazing. You were a big part of that. One of my favorite things while you were there was the five rookies of the year in a row. No other organization has even come close to that, in my opinion. So, and not only that, you all were the perennial contenders. You all were the ones that...

Jasper (23:28.443)
Mmm.

Chad (23:32.697)
Wow.

Brian Johnson (23:37.969)
that were always in the crunch of it after you came on board. So hats off to you for an amazing career with that. A couple things I wanna mention too, based on your stories. One is, I love your story about the minor leagues and taking on Tommy and going out there in a game. I would venture to say no general manager in the game in the last 15 years would have had the courage to go out there and do that, nor the skill. So-

Fred Claire (24:06.414)
My late friend Don Drysdale said, Fred, I've seen a lot of things in Dodger Town. You showed me, he'd stopped on his bicycle on his way back from Holman Stadium to watch the end of this game. He said, you showed me something today that I've never seen. And you know it's interesting that she mentioned that crime because as Andy Drysdale knows, Don is the one guy, he didn't call me Fred. He called me Freddie.

Brian Johnson (24:17.419)
Yeah.

Brian Johnson (24:20.729)
Yeah, that's beautiful.

Brian Johnson (24:34.362)
Uh huh.

Fred Claire (24:34.365)
Don thought of me as someone who had played the game. But Brian, thank you for that. And we, you know, look, we went from Mike Piazza, Eric Caros, Aral Malamdesi, Hideo Nomo, Todd Hollingsworth. When that's mentioned, and nice of you to mention, that I was there as the head of, I was the...

Brian Johnson (24:39.077)
Yeah, yeah, that's right.

Jasper (24:39.513)
Alright.

Fred Claire (25:02.957)
Executive Vice President General Manager, I will tell you something. And you guys mentioned this in your lead-in. As soon as that's mentioned, I do one thing. Give credit where credit are due. The most important part of any baseball organization are scouting and player development. And if you don't know it, you don't know the game.

Brian Johnson (25:28.433)
So yeah, definitely appreciate it.

Chad (25:28.631)
Yeah.

Fred Claire (25:30.361)
And you can take all the analytics. And I know about analytics. I hired Craig Wright, a young guy who was one of the first people in there. I later became the co-partner of the company Scalables, one of the leading analytics companies, with my dear friend Ari Kaplan, who was a freshman at Caltech when I first met him in 1988 or 89. So I think...

I like analytics. I think it's here to stay. But when you look at all of it, scouting, player development, and the heart and soul of the player are going to tell you who the players are.

Jasper (26:00.487)
Hmm?

Brian Johnson (26:16.485)
Yeah, you're exactly right. It's a definitely it's a disappointment because you're right. Analytics are here. Analytics provide us a whole lot of great ways to evaluate what's already happened. Right. But it's unfortunate the Scouts have really been devalued, I think, in the last 20 years, which is a go ahead. Sorry.

Fred Claire (26:34.557)
Very definitely. No, I agree with that. They have been and because there's the analytics can tell you a lot, but they can't really dig into the heart and soul. I've known great players since I've had the honor to know Roy Campanella, Jackie Robinson, Peewee Reese, Duke Snyder, Don Newcomb.

Ralph Branca and still stay in touch with the wonderful, wonderful Carl Erskine today. So I know about the people who were the great players. I saw them from that time through all of the Dodger years. And there are characteristics that are so common in that bond of those players that tell you what you want.

Jasper (27:20.943)
Mm.

Fred Claire (27:34.237)
to know. So whether it was Jackie or Newt or Pee Wee or whether it was Garvey Lopes Russell Say or my dear friend Reggie Smith or Oral Hersheiser or all the others. I didn't need analytics to tell me about those people.

Jasper (27:45.606)
Hmm.

Brian Johnson (27:55.705)
Yeah, that's right. That's right. I want to change gears real quick before I throw it back to Jasper. I love my favorite time. Well, one of my favorite teammates of all time, I had him in his last two years in San Diego with the Padres was Fernando Valenzuela. You were in the middle of Fernando mania. You knew Fernando mania was coming before the rest of us. How was that era in your time?

Fred Claire (28:21.553)
Well, it was a wonderful era because Fernando, Brian will tell you the story. So the season, Fernando is signed of course out of Mexico and my dear friend, Mike Brito, no longer with us, receives a lot of credit, deserves all of it. But there was a scout.

Jasper (28:36.637)
Hmm.

Brian Johnson (28:48.081)
Sure. Mike Brito is the famous, I'm sorry Fred, Brito is the famous scout that would sit behind home plate in Dodger games with the big hat and the big cigar for anybody that doesn't realize who that is. Go ahead, sorry Fred.

Fred Claire (28:51.412)
There's always another scout.

Fred Claire (28:56.809)
Oh yeah. Yeah. But before Mike saw him, there was a scout with us from Cuba by the name of Carita Verona. You don't know his name, nobody knows his name. But he was the first one who saw Fernando and asked Mike to come down through Alcantara Panas to see Fernando.

So Fernando comes up in 1980 from San Antonio, pitches a few games for the Dodgers. It's all there in the record. Now the 81 season starts. Jerry Royce is to be our opening day pitcher. The day before opening day, Royce is in the outfield running and pulls a hamstring. So I was one of the people.

Brian Johnson (29:47.857)
Big left.

Fred Claire (29:56.501)
on the phone, our staff is very small, reaching out to Tony DeMarco, Fernando's agent, trying to get to Fernando to let him know he's going to be the starting pitcher. Opening day. Now, big deal. So Fernando on opening day, 1981.

Brian Johnson (30:07.606)
Mmm, wow.

Fred Claire (30:16.801)
Has never started a major league game. Opening day, warms up in the bullpen, walks in the tunnel way into the dugout. I had been in the dugout before the game. At that time I was VP public relations marketing, whatever. I'm standing there. Fernando comes into the dugout.

Brian Johnson (30:20.066)
No pressure.

Jasper (30:21.029)
No pressure, yeah.

Fred Claire (30:42.429)
There's a, when you're around the game, if you're deeply in love and involved with the game, there's a sense of the game. You either have it or you don't have it. And so Fernando walks out into the dugout, stretches his neck, looks around the stadium, and I thought, and I've been there before, before a lot of big games.

Chad (31:11.339)
at the moment.

Brian Johnson (31:13.489)
55,000 people.

Chad (31:15.062)
That's a moment.

Fred Claire (31:16.255)
This is eerie. In my mind, Fernando looked around and he said, this is the stage that I prepare to walk on like a musician. There was no fear. There was no anything but a calmness and a belief in his ability that he could.

Jasper (31:28.389)
Hmm.

Fred Claire (31:42.185)
perform to the highest level. And that's exactly what he did. And he had a run in 1981 that, as history shows, unprecedented. He had the screwball that a pitcher, Bobby Castillo, had helped him with, developed that screwball. And Mike Socia said the other day, Fernando was a gifted athlete.

Jasper (31:53.447)
Hmm.

Brian Johnson (32:10.277)
He was. He could hit and play golf very well as well.

Fred Claire (32:11.357)
gifted athlete. He could take a last-dode, Brian, a last-dode, as you know, in the clubhouse and bring it around your neck. He went out to start to play golf and he started playing left-handed and asked Pat Screener, our trainer, let me try your right-handed clubs and drilled those. He had the greatest command, Brian, as you know. So should we'll tell you. Of all the great Dodger pitchers he caught, no one had the command of Fernando.

Brian Johnson (32:31.557)
Yeah.

Fred Claire (32:40.589)
a warrior, he never wanted to come out of a game. And I signed Fernando to a number of contracts, including one on the day that Cheryl and I were married. We had to hold up the ceremony while I negotiated the conclusion of the contract. Cheryl was involved. I was the general manager at the time. And I had the as part of that and all the nice stories and all the good times.

Brian Johnson (32:57.777)
Hahaha!

Fred Claire (33:10.625)
I had the decision to make to release Fernando. And so you can check the year on that. It must've been what, in the early 90s. Fernando had come off an injury the previous year, and I did not want to release him without giving him a chance to make the club. But that spring, he was dreadful.

Brian Johnson (33:14.397)
Mmm.

Jasper (33:21.935)
Hmm.

Fred Claire (33:40.777)
dreadful. And I remember, and we reached a point where now it was going to be a million and a half dollars or so in salary if we passed a certain date. I'll never forget the date going to Peter and saying Peter I'm gonna have to release Fernando today I just can't justify the value of this contract. And so I remember Dodger Town.

Brian Johnson (34:04.988)
Mm.

Fred Claire (34:08.201)
going into Tommy's office with Ron Paranosky, asking one of the guys to bring in Fernando and told him with great respect that his career as a Dodger was over. Fernando had very few words, left the meeting later on, pitched for the Angels and the Padres. I think Brian came back a little bit for the Padres.

But he was not the pitcher, unless it's hard, unless it's talent, that he had built.

Jasper (34:41.061)
Hmm.

Brian Johnson (34:43.973)
It was smoke and mirrors, but he got through some games pretty well.

Chad (34:46.35)
Thanks for watching!

Fred Claire (34:46.589)
Yeah.

Chad (34:50.146)
So, so Fred, the great story about talent, right? Identifying talent, that is hugely key. But you also talk about, you know, scouting, player development. But in the off season of 1998, I mean, you were able to land Gibson, Davis, Griffin, Powell, or I mean, you put together a championship team, right? And I understand that, you know, there were more than just you doing this, right? But this was, this was your time, right? This is your first year in.

Fred Claire (35:14.33)
Yes.

Chad (35:18.826)
Can you talk about the talent gaps that you had in your roster that you had to identify and then how you knew how to fill them? Obviously the love of the game means something, but that's not going to always win you a world championship, right?

Fred Claire (35:35.983)
When I looked at our team in 87, I thought, wow.

We do not have, or going into 87 when I took over as general manager, we don't have a center fielder.

We don't have a shortstop. We don't have a closure.

Chad (35:55.758)
That's a problem.

Jasper (35:56.625)
That's a good one to have, yeah.

Fred Claire (36:02.077)
how the hell are we gonna get any better? So the first step to that in one of my early days was that to start the 87 season, we'd brought up a young player. He'd been a double A, San Antonio the year before. I won't give his name. He was a good young man.

But I'll never forget one of the early games when I became the general manager. You were playing in Montreal, and he went back for a ball and misplayed the ball. And that can happen. But what disturbed me is in we didn't have the internet, but reading the papers the next day, when the writers went to him and asking about that ball, I'll never forget his quote. He said, hey man, do you expect me to catch everything?

Jasper (36:40.593)
Hmm.

Fred Claire (36:55.289)
And when I read that quote, I thought, yeah, I do. Yeah. I expect you to catch it. I said, we got to get a center fielder. So Baltimore, and this, this is the essence of Scali. I was in spring training a couple of years before, and I was sitting with the wonderful Lou Johnson. And this player from Baltimore came up and he said, Fred, he said, that I know this young man.

Jasper (36:55.815)
I'm out.

Chad (36:58.093)
Yes.

Jasper (36:59.469)
Yes.

Brian Johnson (37:00.658)
Hahaha

Fred Claire (37:24.645)
coming to bat. His name is John Shelby. He grew up in Louisville where I grew up. And he said, Fred, this guy's got some talent. And he said, he's a wonderful, wonderful person. So we need a center fielder. And Shelby has just been sent from Baltimore to Rochester, the Minor Lakes, to start the season. I've had a couple of years in the

in the major leagues with the Orioles. So I send our scout Mel Didier, Brian, you know Mel. Mel goes in, Mel the typical scout, goes into Rochester, Minnesota. It's colder than hell. He's bundled up, got his big hat, and he calls me and he says, Fred, I've seen Shelby.

Brian Johnson (38:05.157)
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

Jasper (38:16.163)
Hehe

Fred Claire (38:23.341)
He said, wait, it's freezing cold here. He said, Fred, you know something? He's the first guy out on the field.

Jasper (38:32.027)
Mmm.

Fred Claire (38:33.481)
I said, wow. He said, Freddie, he's got a good arm. He runs well. I hear his makeup is real good, which I already knew myself. And so I thought he could be our guy. We need a center fielder. He's had some truly experienced, Brian, you knew him. A wonderful guy. Keybone and...

Jasper (38:53.435)
Right.

Brian Johnson (38:57.725)
T-Bone. Good dude.

Fred Claire (39:02.185)
So, one of the, going back to Brito, Brito behind home plate everybody saw him. So when I first became the general manager, I said to him, Mike, what the hell happens to all the reports when you're back there and everybody sees you? He says, I give him the Al, but he says, I don't think Al pays much attention to it, in all due respect to Al, because Al has his own evaluation. I said, from now on,

given to me because I will pay attention. And I remember his report on Tom, wonderful guy, was not positive at all. And we could see that he was struggling. So I call the Baltimore General Manager, Hank Peters, and we work out a trade for Dean Fuhrer.

for Shelby and another left-handed hitter, Dwyer, I think maybe his name, who got hot for the Orioles and Hank agreed to the trade. But he said, Fred, I can't do this guy so high. I can't do it. Well, I didn't want to let the trade go. So we took another player, a left-handed pitcher. So we make the trade. 1987, my first year, a few days into the season.

for Shelby. I remember calling John. We're now at the Grand Hyatt in New York. John's in Rochester. I call him and I said, John, I just made a trade for you. I need you to report tonight or tomorrow night. Rochester, New York, Shea State. He said, Mr. Clarem, we're in an upstairs apartment in...

Jasper (40:43.676)
Hmm.

Fred Claire (41:00.113)
Rochester, we have a couple of young children and it'll take me three days to get to Albuquerque. These were my exact words. John, you're not going to Albuquerque. You are the starting center fielder of the Los Angeles Dodgers and I swear to you, you can call John and ask him you should. I thought he had left the phone.

Brian Johnson (41:09.437)
Mm-hmm.

Brian Johnson (41:17.797)
Wow. No way.

Chad (41:20.856)
Whoa.

Jasper (41:28.114)
Hahaha

Brian Johnson (41:28.849)
Hahaha!

Fred Claire (41:29.721)
about a minute and he said to me, I've waited all my life to hear those words. Check the record in 87. John, from the moment he became a Dodger, hit as many or nearly as many home runs and drove in as many runs as any center fielder in the National League.

Brian Johnson (41:40.281)
Wow.

Fred Claire (42:00.565)
And to this day, he's a dear friend. And that child who was just born has come into my office in Pasadena to see me. And I stay in very close touch with John and Tina Shelby and their family, including his son, who now is in baseball as an agent or in marketing and doing a tremendous job. So that's why they can fire you.

Jasper (42:13.174)
Hmm.

Brian Johnson (42:25.197)
All right, great story. Yeah.

Fred Claire (42:30.237)
but they can never take those moments.

Chad (42:34.954)
Yeah, well talk about that moment though, Fred, because you got an opportunity to do that on a, I mean, I don't say a daily basis, but often, right? You were the hand up. And I mean, that had to be just incredibly gratifying to you, knowing that that's an opportunity that these guys have been waiting for.

Fred Claire (42:49.77)
Well, it was, yeah.

Fred Claire (42:54.189)
Shelby now comes to Dodger Stadium on Saturday. We're playing the Mets and it's the NBC game of the week. So the Mets in the first inning get the bases loaded and Kevin McReynolds is coming up. McReynolds hits a ball that looked like one of those airplanes going over Shea Stadium. Shelby goes back.

Jasper (42:57.923)
Hmm.

Jasper (43:16.637)
Yeah.

Fred Claire (43:20.745)
There's film on this. Shelby goes back, reaches above the fence, and catches the ball. And my wonderful wife Cheryl jumps up and says, he caught it! He caught it! And I knew like TV cameras might be around. I said, Cheryl, calm down. He's supposed to catch those balls. So you've got to, you've got to, Chad, you've got to...

Brian Johnson (43:41.333)
That's right.

Fred Claire (43:49.649)
Believe in your players. If you don't believe in your players, and they know, yeah, players are like children. You can bullshit them, but you can't fool them. Well, don't try to. You're wasting your time. Be honest with them. And that's what I always try to be. I remember Scott Boros called me after Dodger days, and he said, Fred, I'd like to meet with you. I'd like to ask you a couple of questions.

Jasper (44:01.318)
Hmm.

Fred Claire (44:19.749)
So I thought, well, that's interesting coming from Scott Boros. So I said, well, before the luncheon, I said, I'm just curious, Scott, what is it? He said, Fred, in all the years I've known you, everything you said to a player, everything you said to the press, everything that you said about that, they all matched up. How does that happen? I said, Scott, we don't need lunch. It's easy.

Jasper (44:22.947)
Mm.

Fred Claire (44:49.769)
Tell them all the same thing. Tell them all the truth. You got no problem.

Brian Johnson (44:55.165)
I love it. I love it.

Jasper (44:55.925)
That's awesome. I mean, if there's one takeaway that that's just I can sit here and just listen for hours and hours. It's just probably one of the easiest people to listen to. I want to touch on briefly on so a bit of a personal anecdote. I remember telling you this about two years ago, Fred. During the whole COVID ordeal, there was no baseball and I felt a gap in my heart. I needed baseball in my life. So

I went onto YouTube and watched several games of the 1995 and 1996 Los Angeles Dodgers. That was probably the only season where there were actual full games on YouTube. So being the nerd I was, I was just watching them and I remember my girlfriend coming by like, that footage looks a bit old. That's not life, is it? I was like, I had to explain to her what on earth it was that I was doing. And I was captivated, I think most by two figures in the game of baseball, one being Hideo Nomo.

the first ever Japanese pitcher to sign an actual contract with a team in the MLB, which I'll touch upon later, hopefully. But one other guy that I didn't get to ask you about two years ago was a guy that you drafted essentially, or Tommy Lasorda drafted though, by the name of Mike Piazza. And his story is obviously fabled as being sort of a favour to Tommy Lasorda being drafted as...

probably one of the last rounds of the draft if I'm correct. But I'm just curious to know, because you have an eye for talent, I think that is just, it's clearly there. And I think many people will aspire to have one day. But I'm curious to know that the first time you ever came across Mike Piazza, what were your thoughts?

Fred Claire (46:37.054)
Well, I knew of Mike because Tommy was key in signing Mike. Mike had gone to the University of Miami, I think placed him first base, was catching. But he really hadn't had a chance to show his talent and find his place and be in an area of consistency. But-

I knew how high Tommy was because Mike's father was Vince Piazza and they were very close from Norstown, PA. Now Tommy is very good to his friends.

but he doesn't mix that with talent evaluation. He knew Mike had power. And I think the first time I really became a Mike, where a Mike was his season in Bakersfield. Maybe even in Vero Beach, he actually had a little problem with our manager there.

not taking sides in that, but there was a confrontation. I mean, Mike was a high energy guy with high expectations for himself, but he got through that. I think he found himself really in Bakersfield. And then early on, Mike, and this was through Tommy's help, volunteered or wanted to go to the Dominican one winner. He caught in Mexico.

Jasper (48:12.125)
Mmm.

Fred Claire (48:15.257)
So this showed me that this guy with clearly talent and strength was someone to watch. And Mike was blessed, as Brian knows from behind the plate. The thing that always impressed me about Mike, he had a very short stroke. He had the power. When you find a guy...

Jasper (48:38.97)
Hmm.

Fred Claire (48:46.431)
who can hit the ball out in right field, left field, right center, left center. We're talking about power. And Mike had that type of power. So I remember being in Wrigley Field, Mike Piazza comes to the plate for his first at bat in the Major Leagues. And my guest sitting in my box switched with me.

was Vince Piazza. And so I remember it from beginning to end. And so he, and of course, my career came to an end when the Fox people traded Piazza to the Marlins because they wanted to get the Marlins TV rights, get Fox. And the Fox people said, or the Marlins people said,

Jasper (49:14.737)
Hmm.

Jasper (49:31.278)
Yeah.

Fred Claire (49:42.977)
sure of what we can do here with the TV rights because we've got this big player contracts in Gary Sheffield and Bobby Bonilla. The Fox people being good television people and bad baseball people. So, we can...

Jasper (49:59.822)
Yeah.

Chad (50:03.264)
Wow.

Jasper (50:08.517)
Yeah.

Fred Claire (50:11.665)
We'll take those contracts and do the network deal. You don't have to worry about those contracts. We'll free up that money for you and we'll give you money for the TV rights. So that's when the Fox executive made the trade of Piazza and Todd Zeal, bless his heart, who had signed to us really before.

Jasper (50:17.187)
Yeah.

Fred Claire (50:38.345)
below market value because he was from Southern California, won the plate for the Dodgers. So that was the night that I got the phone call that said from Bob Graziano, then the president, who said, Fred, there's been a trade that's been made. Wait a minute. You're telling me I'm the general manager, there's been a trade that's been made? He said, yeah, we've traded Piazep and Todd Zeo.

Jasper (50:42.278)
Yeah.

Jasper (50:55.906)
Yeah, wait a minute.

Fred Claire (51:07.581)
to the Marlins for Gary Sheffield, Bobby Bonilla, Jim Eisenright, and Charles Johnson, the catcher. And I said, Bob, then there will be two announcements tonight. Because after I announced the trade...

Brian Johnson (51:20.093)
Mm-hmm.

Jasper (51:28.049)
I'm sorry.

Fred Claire (51:33.221)
I'll announce my resignation because this is not how, I've been with the Dodgers for 30 years. This is not how you run a baseball team. And I don't like any part of it for our fans, for the organization, for anybody involved. So I go back to my office, 30 years with the Dodgers, the phone rings, it's Derry Call, now the president of the Arizona Diamondbacks who was in PR for us.

He said, Fred, the contract, the deal can't be announced tonight. He said, Sheffield has a no trade contract. And I said, of course he has a no trade contract. And the general manager, I assume you resolved the contract. No, it's no trade contract. Trade can't be announced.

Fred Claire (52:26.05)
So I wasn't going to walk away at that point. So the next day, I call, Sheffield comes out to Los Angeles to meet with me and our attorney, Sam Fernandez, to resolve the contract. And I'll never forget my office at Dodger Stadium.

Fred Claire (52:49.597)
The Marlins are in St. Louis and it's on TV to play the Cardinals. Gary Sheffield, the star player of the Marlins who can make a difference in that game in St. Louis, is sitting in my office. I think to myself, this is really screwed up because I considered each game to be the most vital thing that was taking place.

that day. Every pitch, every play, every game. There wasn't anything more important business-wise in my life. So I told Gary, we worked out the deal. I said, Gary, you play with a lot of talent. I'm sure you can help. I know you can help the Dodgers, but we go down to that press conference. I'm going to tell the press exactly how this trade came about.

Jasper (53:20.711)
Hmm.

Fred Claire (53:48.189)
So I told the press, well the reporters came up to me a day later and he said, Fred, Fox is going to get you. They are so pissed off that you told how that trade came about because they wanted me to say that I had made it. I said, look guys, it's not that I have made a bad trade. But if you think I'm going to lie before the media, you're dealing with the wrong guy.

Jasper (54:05.085)
Hmm.

Fred Claire (54:16.281)
And my wife, Cheryl, said, Fred, when you talk to those people that way, they're going to fire you. I said, I've raised money or I've made money since I had a newspaper route in Jamestown, Ohio, with trapped mustergrass. So I think I'll make a living somehow, somewhere. But June 21st, sadly, the day Al Campanis died, we're in Colorado. I got a phone call saying, stop by Dodger Stadium.

Jasper (54:32.189)
Okay.

Fred Claire (54:47.769)
after the game when you fly into LA, because we want to meet with you at Dodger Stadium. So I had our wonderful driver, Stan, drop me off, take Cheryl home, walk in. Peter O'Malley, Bob Graziano said, we're placing you with Tommy, but Tommy LaSorde is the general manager. If you want to stay on, you can help Tommy, you can do so.

I said, well, will I be compensated for that? Oh no, you have a contract. So in other words, I've never been fired. I just want to understand it. I can come in and do this, or Cheryl and I can go tee it up and I get paid the same amount of money.

Jasper (55:19.281)
If you

Brian Johnson (55:32.132)
Hahaha

Chad (55:34.434)
I'll take the ladder. Thank you.

Jasper (55:36.262)
Yeah, easy call.

Fred Claire (55:36.481)
explain to me. I love the game, but I know when it's time to leave the stage. And so I thank you very much. I appreciate all the opportunities I've had for the Dodgers. And so I will not be coming in tomorrow.

Brian Johnson (56:00.601)
I mean, that was such a big moment in time that the Fox, it was pretty apparent, I think, to the whole baseball world that Fox had come in and really messed up a great franchise. And at least, yeah, at least for a period before they could recover. I think the Magic Johnson's group has done a much better job of bringing the organization back to a great standing. But what I love about that story is how you talk about, which is pretty consistent with what you said about.

Fred Claire (56:12.345)
They ain't really good, Brian.

Fred Claire (56:21.277)
No question.

Brian Johnson (56:29.685)
Being honest with players being honest with agents and being consistent telling everybody the same thing telling them the truth I love that but I love how you said that you promised Todd Zille That if he'd come for less money to be with his family So he went to UCLA he's an LA guy and he comes there and he's a really valuable player for you all and he comes There and I would imagine that your personal bond with him and with piazza But that personal bond that promise that you gave to Todd Zille

Fred Claire (56:45.609)
Good.

Brian Johnson (56:59.813)
Was that one of the first pangs at your heart when you first found out about Zeal being traded? Like, I gave this guy my word.

Fred Claire (57:04.849)
Well, it was, indeed it was, because the fact is the thing that I asked for initially was the responsibility which the O'Malley's had always given. And that this is just not the way, but I felt bad for Todd.

Jasper (57:22.378)
Hmm

Fred Claire (57:30.125)
In fact, he ended up screaming, they were friends with Mike, he ended up screaming at Mike, look what you did here. Because I had offered Mike a contract that really would have made him the highest paid player at the time. But those things happen and they don't happen in a routine fashion. That was a significant moment in time. But it did change the organization considerably. Because then, after that...

Jasper (57:49.413)
Eesh.

Fred Claire (58:00.581)
Because one of the things that Fox, after the trade was made, what was interesting, then they came to me, this was then before my firing, Fox has now made the trade, and said the next thing they said is we want to replace Bill Russell. And I said to them, and who do you recommend? I said, look.

Give Bill more of a chance here. We just had unloaded this trade on him. We want to make a change. What do you recommend? I said my recommendation is that for the short term, Reggie Smith take over this ball club because he can handle it. Reggie's interest is in teaching not in managing, but I can't think of anybody better and then in the long run

Jasper (58:33.419)
Ehh.

Fred Claire (58:57.049)
beginning next year, Mike Sosha takes over this club and he will manage this club for 20 years.

Fred Claire (59:07.113)
And then they, when, after I was fired, and then Bill Russell was fired after me, and they named Glenn Hoffman, a wonderful young man, as the manager. But Sochua would have been a perfect guy and remains a dear friend today, as does Retchie.

Jasper (59:32.205)
Yeah, I mean, for me, it's just sort of beggars believe that sort of trade to happen. And I think it speaks testament to the person you are for going out there and saying the truth. And I think the easiest call there would have been just to announce the trade, I guess. But I think you sort of put, you value certain things more than the other, which is, I mean, that's that story in itself, I think, encapsulates what type of person you are, Fred.

Fred Claire (59:50.065)
No.

Jasper (01:00:00.173)
I want to delve into something else a little bit later on in your life. You were diagnosed with cancer, 2015, if I've read your book correctly. And you went on to the city of hope, which is if people aren't familiar, top cancer treatment and research center based in California. And in your book, you've written a beautiful book about it, which I hope many people go and read and buy and read.

You've described them as the best team you've ever encountered. Now this podcast is all about chasing talent, but also retaining talent and managing talent. I'm curious because you've been around many, many great teams. To be able to call them the best team you've ever encountered, how did they help you and what made you say that?

Chad (01:00:36.027)
Thank you.

Fred Claire (01:00:46.425)
Well, I thank you, Jasper, for mentioning the book. And I always wanted to thank you because all of the net proceeds go to the City of Hope. I was there just last week. I have some ongoing things that I need to do. But it was in the 19th.

Chad (01:00:51.83)
Pair this extra innings.

Fred Claire (01:01:13.833)
So it was the year...

Fred Claire (01:01:20.649)
2016, I had a little spot on my lip for many days in the sun, as you all know. And this one, my dermatologist said we need to do a Mo's procedure, something she didn't do but recommended me to someone. The tiniest of spots. A very renowned Mo's doctor.

Jasper (01:01:30.429)
Hehehehe

Fred Claire (01:01:47.185)
didn't get the margins, the cancer, scrimmosal carcinoma went up my jawbone, headed north. So when I go to city of Hope, I know by years I'm 80 years old at the time. This was eight years ago. And the wonderful doctor.

Jasper (01:02:03.729)
Hmm.

Fred Claire (01:02:11.013)
Dr. Gurnon, after the x-rays and so forth, said, Fred, this is very serious. You squamous cell carcinoma, very aggressive cancer, it's in your jawbone and we've got to get it out immediately. And he said that we can take the fibula from your left leg and replace your jawbone.

Brian Johnson (01:02:37.873)
Wow.

Jasper (01:02:38.623)
Wow.

Fred Claire (01:02:40.085)
And I said, Dr. Gurman, I've been blessed with great health. I'm 80 years old. I've never been in the hospital. I'm more interested in quality of life than length of life. Is there something else? He said, yes, we can just simply cut at your neck, take it out and not take your fibula to replace your jawbone.

And I said, I've never been afraid of a challenge, as those around me know, but that sounds like the best plan. So that's what they did. And so ongoing treatment of 35 radiations, chemotherapy, all of the other things, radiation, I guess, that cancer patients are well aware.

So going back to City of Hope, day after day, I said to Cheryl, these are the greatest people I've ever been around. Not me, the other patients. I said, there's something here, we've got to find a way to raise money. And so I met with one of the City of Hope people, told them that I wanted to do a celebrity golf tournament. And

Jasper (01:03:51.474)
Hmm.

Fred Claire (01:04:09.533)
People walked away and my wonderful Cheryl looked at me and she said, you've got to be, she's very candid, you've got to be the only person at City of Hope with a 20% chance of survival, play in a golf tournament. I said, yeah. And I thought to myself, well, if I'm not here, somebody else was obligated to do the tournament. We're going to raise the money. As fate would have it.

Brian Johnson (01:04:26.074)
Oh.

Jasper (01:04:31.545)
Hahaha

Brian Johnson (01:04:31.947)
Hehehehehehe

Fred Claire (01:04:40.325)
Three years ago, due to all the radiation, my jawbone disintegrated. So now I go back to Dr. Griffin. We can't operate again, we can't do chemo again, we can't give you radiation. The only thing we can do is take the fibula from your left leg and replace your jawbone. And...

Brian Johnson (01:05:02.161)
Hmm. And that's a piece of the fibula, right? Just a piece, okay.

Fred Claire (01:05:06.721)
Yeah, because the fibula didn't really know, it's like a spare tire. You don't really get by without it. And so that's what they did. And when the cancer came back, it was really immunotherapy, the science of cancer that has made the difference. And for your listeners who know and who are well aware and who've had journeys as difficult and far more difficult than mine.

Brian Johnson (01:05:11.853)
Right, right. I didn't know you had extra space on your fibula. I didn't know that was a thing.

Chad (01:05:16.622)
Ha ha!

Fred Claire (01:05:36.429)
I'll tell you something, and I thought this last week when I walked in City Hall, I've never been around a team of leaders and seeing the patients from all ages and stages, it's the closest thing I've ever had to walking into a clubhouse. Strange sentence. Because we truly are all together.

Jasper (01:06:00.191)
Mm.

Fred Claire (01:06:06.641)
with one common opponent. Used to be the Giants for the Cardinals, now it's not, it's Canada. And that feeling and wanting to be of whatever help that I can be to my fellow mates, my teammates there, I want to do. So I just feel very fortunate and without any question, it's the...

Jasper (01:06:13.061)
Hehehehe

Jasper (01:06:22.843)
Yeah.

Fred Claire (01:06:35.281)
the greatest satisfaction of my lifetime.

Brian Johnson (01:06:37.797)
Yeah, well, let me tell you that. That's an amazing story. You look fantastic. They did a great job. In my day job, I've had the honor of working with City of Hope as well. So I'd know them pretty well. They have, they're spread all around the country. They do both cancer treatment and they also do a lot of cancer research. City of Hope is an amazing organization. So I'm really glad we had a chance to talk to them, but thank you for sharing that, Fred.

Fred Claire (01:06:58.03)
Oh yes.

Fred Claire (01:07:02.761)
Good. You bet.

Jasper (01:07:05.277)
Brilliant.

Chad (01:07:05.474)
Well, excellent everybody. That is Fred Claire. Talk about amazing stories. Now, now, Fred, if somebody wants to buy the book, where can they buy the book? Do they go to Amazon? Do you have a website? We're working to get it.

Brian Johnson (01:07:09.591)
Yeah

Fred Claire (01:07:18.153)
They can go on Extra Innings, Fred Claire's journey to City of Hope and final World Championship team. They can go to Amazon and buy it on Amazon. All the net proceeds go to City of Hope. And as much as the proceeds, as Brian knows, the more that people know about City of Hope, because they are...

Chad (01:07:43.191)
Mm-hmm.

Fred Claire (01:07:46.857)
growing a lot because like all great, they're not the one and only cancer hospital. There are wonderful hospitals from the Mayo and all over the country and the world. But it's the challenges that we face in our life and how we deal with them that are most meaning.

Jasper (01:07:52.716)
No.

Jasper (01:08:15.985)
Hmm.

Fred Claire (01:08:16.885)
some of the most courageous people I've ever met, I've met through City of Hope.

Chad (01:08:26.606)
Well, Fred, I got to say for Jasper, Brian and myself, you have made our day. And I got to say every listener who's listening to this will enjoy every single one of the stories. We really appreciate you coming on the show. And if you're listening, hey, listener, next week we'll be coming back, maybe not with Fred, but we're gonna try to up the game with some great stories. Once again, Fred, thank you so much. And we're out of here. Have a good one, guys.

Jasper (01:08:32.291)
Absolutely.

Fred Claire (01:08:50.602)
You must fuck up.

Okay, take good care. Thanks for having me.

Brian Johnson (01:08:57.509)
Thank you so much Fred, thanks for being here.

Jasper (01:08:59.691)
Thank you, Fred.

Fred Claire (01:09:00.174)
Okay, and Brian, what do you do in your day job?

Brian Johnson (01:09:03.22)
I work for