Breakdown: Shohei Ohtani

Brian (00:19.653)
Hey, listener, how we doing? Welcome to another episode of Talent Chasing, a podcast that dares to ask the question, what do sports and the office world have in common? The answer, as it turns out, is quite a lot more than you think. Join us as we aim to bring real world stories from the world of sports and athletics to the confounds of offices of corporate talent. My name is Brian Johnson, former Major League Baseball player and scout.

Jasper (00:46.251)
My name is Jasper Spanjaart, I'm a journalist and filmmaker.

Chad (00:50.123)
And I'm Chad Sowash, recruitment industry veteran. And this episode is part of our breakdown series where we literally, no kidding, breakdown news and topics of our favorite athletes and business icons.

Brian (01:04.123)
while Chad is the molder of great shows. This week's breakdown is focused on baseball's record setting, record breaking Shohei Otani. Just about to get involved in the World Series against the dreaded Yankees on Tuesday, I believe or whenever. But coming up soon, coming up soon and what do you got for us Jasper? Set up our episode.

Chad (01:26.363)
Well, real quick, real quick, got to make mention because Jasper just came out of Concussion Protocol. So him and Tua came out about the same time. There's a lot of stories. And then we're taking flack over this. Everybody's saying, you you're putting him back into early, you know, so yes.

Brian (01:31.598)
Hehehehehe

Jasper (01:35.188)
hahahaha

Brian (01:38.855)
Think of your family, Jasper. Think of your family, Jasper.

Jasper (01:38.903)
so harsh. I bumped my head twice and this is the shit I get. It's like you guys... yeah.

Brian (01:44.997)
You made your money already, Jasper. Shut it down.

Jasper (01:51.553)
No, you're putting it back into early. Yeah. I would say you're right. think you're both the sort of Mike McDaniels of the podcasting world because it's a struggle out here for us concussed folks. It's not easy. But getting back to it. absolutely not. Ownership all the way. Yeah. No, but luckily I'm being put back in a position where I just have to keep playing, keep going, just like to just keep going with the flow.

Brian (01:51.993)
That's right.

Chad (02:02.981)
If you think if you think McDaniels has any say on that you're you're crazy

Chad (02:16.037)
and talking about one of your favorite players.

Jasper (02:17.997)
Well, absolutely. Yeah. Showa Otani, know, the man who came to the U S in 2018, I believe, from Japan and set the baseball world alight, came to the U S in 2018. He had a baseball career before that. Because if you've listened to this podcast before, which I very much hope you have, you've heard me to mention sort of two things. one, I'm a big baseball nerd, two specifically Japanese baseball.

Chad (02:24.919)
Hmm?

Jasper (02:40.313)
and to me, like Otani's successes are just unparalleled. Like I just, Googled before we recorded this episode, I Googled who's the best baseball player ever. That's sort of a joke. And you get several names. You get Babe Ruth, Honus Barkner, Ty Cobb, and from the modern era, Mike Trout and Brian's beloved former teammate, Barry Bonds. but for me, it's about forget about all of them because Shohei Otani is the best baseball player we've ever seen. but I'd be curious because we've got a scout, a former scout.

Chad (02:49.804)
Mm-hmm.

Jasper (03:10.509)
which is the only reason he's on this podcast to begin with. Yeah. We're looking for him. he talks a lot. doesn't always say stuff that's useful, but he's part of the show anyway. tell me, we were hoping every episode, we hope he says something useful, but we're still waiting Brian. but tell me Mr. Johnson, cause you were part of a baseball team in a professional capacity in a time when sort of first rumblings occurred of a sensational superstar. you played in the NPB in Japan, Japan's baseball league.

Brian (03:17.767)
You

Chad (03:18.927)
We're hoping. We're hoping he's got something here.

Jasper (03:40.039)
nip on hand fighters. What were your thoughts as a scout during those times on Mr. Otani?

Brian (03:47.173)
Well, first, I think it's better when we keep playing that opening video, opening audio of the show with me hitting the home run. think I just kind of enjoy that part. I enjoy that part. If we could just play that over and over in the background, I would feel much more at ease and I like I'm providing something here. but anyway, yeah. So 2018, I was still scouting during those days. you're always looking for the greatest talent, right? You're always looking for somebody and,

Jasper (03:54.903)
Yeah, it was really hard to find that sound bite, it was so hard.

Brian (04:17.607)
The coup actually, the steals are the ones that are happening in places you don't recruit that often, historically. So Dominican Republic, Latin American countries, Mexico, we've had a ton of folks from there, a ton of folks from the domestic here in the United States, but Japan, South Korea, a bunch of other, Australia, Italy, there's not a whole lot of baseball talent, great talent that comes out of those spots.

Jasper (04:23.725)
Mm-hmm.

Brian (04:47.461)
Japan is the exception, a ton of them come from there, but just not in large volume. Not a lot of Japanese baseball players, only exceptions come out. So when Shohei Otani came out, I remember he was a skinny kid, very athletic, could hit for average, hit for power, and threw the ball 100 miles per hour. Like what? Wait a second, it's gotta be. So he's got just one pitch, right? Or, you know, let's go see what he has. One of my buddies that are-

Chad (04:49.495)
Mm-hmm.

Jasper (04:52.653)
Mm-hmm.

Brian (05:14.847)
was our international scout, Jilal Leach was a former teammate of mine with the Yankees. He went over and saw him as well as also Mike Kendall, Jason Kendall, long time catcher, his brother, great scout for us as well. They all went over and checked him out and came back like with raving reviews. Like this guy's a real deal. We need to do everything we can to get him. And he was very skinny at that point. He's put on some weight now since he's been in the United States, which has

Jasper (05:30.349)
Mm-hmm.

Brian (05:43.527)
not hampered him, it has added to his stamina, hitting wise. It's added to his power, obviously, at the home plate. The arm problems, you kind of knew it was gonna happen. You the arm problems he's had, he throws that hard, you put your body through a lot of work. And in 2024, unfortunately, know, arm, and I don't know how well they were using them in Japan.

Jasper (05:57.559)
Throwing that hard, yeah.

Chad (06:03.105)
Mm-hmm.

Brian (06:10.289)
How much they were using, was he mostly a reliever or starting pitcher in Japan? All the time starting pitcher. And because he's successful, he can become his own worst enemy. Successful as a starter means you're gonna be pitching more innings and more outings and those type of things. So anyway, the wear and tear on his arm is a big deal. But with surgeries now, with recoveries now, you can come back and be the same guy as you were before. So.

Jasper (06:13.741)
Starting picture. It was a starting picture. Yep.

Chad (06:21.612)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Brian (06:39.367)
What have we seen since we, since we, what happened then was we wanted him, we did everything we but everybody wanted him. So he was not a hard argument to win, that he would be valuable for any franchise. the California Angels at that point, the Los Angeles Angels now, they were the ones that won the sweepstakes for him, but it was really unique. And I'll stop talking here, but

Jasper (06:50.925)
Mm-hmm.

Jasper (07:05.011)
Yeah, please.

Brian (07:07.653)
He took a contract, people don't remember this, he took a smaller contract than he could have gotten because he wanted to show himself, he wanted to show his worth. He wanted to come in underpaid versus overpaid. strategically, I'm sure he knew that he was gonna set the place on fire. But he came in and just kind of under the radar as far as monetary commitment by the Los Angeles Angels.

Chad (07:10.295)
Mm-hmm.

Jasper (07:13.558)
Okay.

Chad (07:23.767)
Mm-hmm.

Brian (07:34.255)
Now I wasn't involved in those negotiations, maybe he had something bigger in mind. But he set himself up to go where he wanted to go soon, and he ended up going to the doctor. So just a great story about him.

Chad (07:37.975)
Mm-hmm.

Chad (07:47.499)
So talk about negotiations because I mean, that is unheard of. Actually going somewhere and taking less money and not going really where you want to go in the first place, just really just going into a good situation. Taking less money on the corporate side, right? I mean, from our standpoint, I've seen people take less money because of the company, because of the opportunity to be able to prospectively climb the ladder much faster.

And knowing that, you know, they were top talent and there wasn't a lot of top talent in the organization. And, or you could learn so much more from the organization. So some of the big names that you get to go work with, that's where you might see some companies or some people take less money. But in this case, I mean, it was really, he just, he was looking to prove himself.

Jasper (08:32.205)
Mm-hmm.

Chad (08:37.303)
Do you think it was the environment that he wanted to go into where he knew he would excel in that specific environment and then get the big money later? Is that, do you think that was it?

Brian (08:46.885)
Yeah, I'm not sure. I think Mike Trout might have been, you know, something that was attractive to him, kind of like what you're saying, going to work with certain folks, perhaps the Angels being perennial losers and wanting to help build that program up. But that doesn't really tie into the money part of it. I would guess, and Jasper, you may know better since you know Japanese baseball better, I don't get the feeling there's a whole lot of contractual holdouts in Japan and trying to get the utmost top dollar always all the time.

Chad (08:53.326)
huh. Yeah.

Chad (09:04.992)
Yeah.

Jasper (09:16.449)
no, no, the team, it's all about what the team wants. So if the team offers you less money than the last year, you're probably going to take it because it's a case of being respectful towards your team. So you're very much going to accept whatever they put in front of you.

Chad (09:29.473)
I mean, the culture, okay.

Brian (09:29.583)
And that's what I think happened. I think, and he's smart. He knew that he was going to have, again, with the backing in Asia, the backing in Japan, being on a West Coast team, right? It's a shorter flight coming from the West Coast going to Japan than it is to be anywhere else in the United States. So he was strategic there, but I would imagine that it was something along the lines of wanting to have a good first impression, right? We don't have a second chance to leave a first impression.

Chad (09:40.556)
Mm-hmm.

Jasper (09:46.913)
Yeah, absolutely.

Chad (09:57.622)
Mm-hmm.

Jasper (09:57.751)
Mm-hmm.

Brian (09:59.175)
And so I imagined it was along those lines of being able to take something that was reasonable, but he knew how much money, marketing money he's already made. He's already made plenty of money. He's been a professional in Japan. This isn't like a kid that had never played professionally, never made any money before. He's made money before he came to the United States. And so he knew that he could get a lot more coming here. And the level plays a little bit higher for those folks on our, of our, of our listeners that don't know that Japan baseball is very good.

Jasper (10:12.969)
No. Exactly.

Brian (10:29.695)
Major League Baseball is the best. And so to see how it turned out is just amazing. And Chad, love that you, mean, Jasper, I'm glad that you bring up the greatest player we've ever seen. Because I get a lot of pushback from people when I tell them that. They're like, Mike Trout. I'm like, what? Mike Trout's not even close. Mike Trout, he doesn't have a good arm, number one. But number two, he can't get on the mound. Shohei Otani, the signature moment for him was that he started the All-Star Game in Major League Baseball.

Chad (10:50.26)
huh.

Brian (10:59.629)
as a hitter, the three hole hitter, the best hitter on the team. And he started, he was the number one starter of the game on the mound as a pitcher. That's the epitome. Babe Ruth didn't do that. Onis Wagger, whoever the heck he was that no one's ever heard of or seen him before, but he gets thrown in the arguments all the time. But Babe Ruth, yeah, Babe Ruth, mean, but look at the time, the games they played back then, you know, people were not training all year round. Just, just look at the video of Babe Ruth.

Jasper (11:02.091)
Yeah, exactly.

Chad (11:02.871)
Yeah.

Jasper (11:15.085)
Throw him under the bus, Brian!

Jasper (11:27.117)
completely different game.

Brian (11:29.767)
That type of swing that he's got, you can't do that against 95 or 100 miles per hour guy. Anyway, that's a whole separate argument, but Shohei Otani needs to be appreciated. He is the best baseball player God has ever put together by definition because he can do both. Barry Bonds couldn't do both. He had a pretty good arm, but he couldn't do both. I've had some of my former teammates complain and say, well,

Chad (11:37.439)
entirely different time.

Chad (11:46.571)
Mm-hmm.

Brian (11:57.083)
Barry could have been a pitcher, he could have gone on a mound. These other guys could have done it because they had a good arm. Baloney, Baloney, unless you do it, there is no I could have, would have, should have. You either did it or you didn't. All of us would have done what Shohei Otani would have done if we could have. And if we were good enough, the organization would have let us do it.

Jasper (12:02.818)
Mmm.

Chad (12:03.137)
They didn't. They didn't.

Jasper (12:17.453)
No, absolutely. I think one of the great part of the stories of Otani, because I've seen so many documentaries on him, read books about him. one of the things that's most amazing to me is because he was 18 when he was doing both in Japan, right? He was a hitter and he was a pitcher. He was throwing 100 miles an hour and he was hitting the ball everywhere basically. And in NPB at the time, you've got the same sort of system as in MLB. Nippon

Brian (12:41.709)
NPB is the Japanese league.

Jasper (12:44.385)
Yeah, Nippon professional baseball. So it's a Japanese version of MLB. And what pretty much happened is only one team allowed him to continue his development as both a hitter and a pitcher. Because in Japan, it's not that common. Nowhere it's pretty much, it's not common anywhere to be both. because it's not, it doesn't make sense to be good at both. It makes sense to do one thing really good and keep doing that.

Brian (13:02.727)
That's right.

Chad (13:11.319)
Until now.

Jasper (13:11.361)
But for Otani, until now, I think it's changed everything about we know about baseball because it's allowed us to have this discussion now where if you've got a kid, 16, 17, 18, stop telling him he can only do one thing because you've got the living proof right there of Mr. Shohei Otani who's doing both at the very highest level you can imagine.

Chad (13:29.687)
But he's not this year. He's not pitching this year. He hasn't pitched this year. that, well, I know he's injured, but he's also having the best hitting year, right? So, so the question is, was the pitching actually keeping his hitting down, right? If you get a chance to focus and be disciplined in one area, which really that's all he's done this year, do you send him back to pitching or do you just go ahead and throw him in the box, man?

Brian (13:32.667)
That's right.

Jasper (13:33.079)
No, because he's injured. He was injured. Yeah.

Brian (13:37.959)
That's Hitting for average for the first time.

Jasper (13:38.677)
It's true, yep.

Jasper (13:45.803)
Yeah.

Jasper (13:54.125)
He's he is absolutely gonna pitch for the Dodgers next year because because the problem is if he were like a for ERA pitcher which for the not baseball forks or 4.5 era is just a mediocre starting pitcher They would probably say to him by right. You've had a great run show But go and be a hitter because you're a 50 home run 50 steals kind of guy But the problem is show a tiny the best version of show a on to a tiny on the man is a 2.5 era pitcher He's a Cy Young candidate pitcher

Chad (14:06.807)
Hmm.

Chad (14:13.185)
Yeah. Yeah.

Chad (14:22.55)
Mm-hmm.

Jasper (14:22.689)
He's one of the best pitchers on the planet. It's, so weird with him because he can do both at the highest level, which is why it's so insane. But this year, think this year, sorry to interrupt you, Brian, but I think this year he was injured. You have the UCL. I think he had a UCL injury and I think he was pretty much, okay, I'm just going to dominate as a hitter this year. And that was it.

Chad (14:29.463)
It's amazing. Yeah.

Brian (14:31.217)
So.

No, I'm good.

Brian (14:43.408)
Yeah. I would say, and thanks for letting me speak, Jasper, because I know I don't say anything that's important. But you sent me out. It was such a good setup. had to take it. Chad, would, whatever your name is, would say, I would disagree. I would disagree because this guy has been doing both for so long. It's normal for him.

Jasper (14:46.461)
That's great, yeah. Yeah, I have to take it.

Chad (14:47.72)
You

Chad (15:00.971)
Yeah.

Jasper (15:05.093)
What the

Chad (15:09.784)
huh. Okay.

Jasper (15:09.921)
Yeah. Yeah.

Brian (15:12.167)
And so, you know, kind of like went out, you know, as a student for me, I was a much better student when I had other stuff going on where I could just focus and my focus is kind of short time, whatever. I'm a much better student when I had other stuff going on. I played three sports in high school, two sports in college. didn't matter. It didn't matter. Yeah, it didn't matter. Stay with me, Jasper. Stay with me. I'm trying to make a point. My first time ever trying to make a point.

Jasper (15:28.173)
Stop bragging.

You

You

Brian (15:37.711)
It doesn't matter what else you're doing is if you have that confidence, sometimes it just works. seems like for Shohei, he needs both. He enjoys both and he feeds off of both. think maybe why he had a better batting average as maybe something else, mechanically probably not, probably figured out a little bit better as to how they were facing because remember too, he's doing a lot of designated hitting as a designated here. So he's not out in the field. That's a hard job because you got a lot of time in your hands.

Chad (15:45.239)
Mm-hmm.

Chad (15:59.799)
Mm-hmm.

Jasper (15:59.937)
Yep. Yep.

Brian (16:04.667)
That's hard to keep mentally focused while you're doing that job. A lot of guys hate being the designated hitter. Anyway, this guy is amazing and we are privileged to have a chance to see him in his prime. Let me ask you all this. There has been some resistance in the United States from the baseball fans as to giving him his flowers. There's been some reason, he's not great as all Mike Trout. you he's not the greatest all time Babe Ruth, right?

Chad (16:24.119)
Mm.

Jasper (16:32.525)
Mm-hmm.

Brian (16:33.957)
And this guy's been doing this since day one, pretty much. Why do you think the pushback has been?

Jasper (16:36.489)
Yep, dominating since day one.

Chad (16:39.991)
I mean, if you think about it, and again, our culture and the way that politics is going and news, I mean, it's unfortunately something that this country was made, was forced by nothing but immigrants, right? And we had, you know, first and foremost, the Poles, the Irish, they were all thrust out because they weren't part of the cool kid group, right?

English who, were, who were here. And then you have Asians, right? Who still in, in, black and brown people, man, for, for me, if you take a look at, and I don't, I don't know what the demographics are on this, but if you take a look at the actual demographics on baseball, you know, that might be it. It might be because it's heavy, you know, white male, dominated and that's who they want to see dominate because they see themselves there. And that's, think.

Jasper (17:30.871)
Mm-hmm.

Chad (17:38.953)
A problem that we don't see everybody as ourselves and just literally just, you know, applaud for somebody coming from another country, just kicking ass and taking names. I mean, this is unprecedented. This is amazing.

Jasper (17:51.437)
Yeah. I think that ties into it because I was doing bit of Googling, guys. Well, Chad was doing his very long answer and I'm just joking. I'm just joking. That's great. Thank you for that. No, I saw MLB player demographics. I don't know if it's reliable. don't know if this, but white 57.5%, Hispanic 31.9, black 77, players playing in MLB. Yeah.

Chad (18:00.413)
I was trying to give you time. I was trying to give you time.

Brian (18:16.039)
Of the players you're talking about?

Jasper (18:19.437)
Black 7.7 % Asian slash other 2.9%. So I would say that strengthens your argument in the sense that there's not a lot of Japanese or Asian players playing in MLB clearly, two in a hundred. So I think with regards to answering your question, Brian, yeah, there's absolutely no reason not to give this guy his flowers because he's the best player by far ever. No one could ever do what he's done.

Chad (18:45.42)
Mm-hmm.

Jasper (18:48.075)
And he's left, like he made his professional debut at 18 in Japan and dominated from the get-go. To me, like he's put together the 12 best years of baseball we've probably ever seen with, you know, a few injuries in between, sure. But it's, it's absolutely like it's once in a lifetime. That's what it looks like for me.

Chad (19:06.839)
So in real quick, it's in Jasper's long answer actually gave me time to giggle. So, so we actually take a look at the audience, which is, mean, I think what we're, what we're looking at here, ethnicity, 69 % of major league baseball fans who've watched or attended games or Caucasian, 19 % Hispanic. So, mean, then it obviously goes, goes down dramatically from there. talking about over 60 % are male. So yeah, I think it's one of those things where we still have to

Brian (19:10.54)
Yeah.

Jasper (19:17.957)
great.

Jasper (19:25.431)
Mmm.

Chad (19:36.715)
break out of the, it's got to look like us mold. And we're just not there yet.

Brian (19:41.637)
Yeah, I completely agree. I think you guys both right. It is about the fans and it is about the older white males. That's the demographic that are that are watching and pay attention. That's why MLB did a big study of who their fan base was. We found this out with some of our clients that were major baseball teams and the studies came back and the Commissioner's office. The studies came back saying that those older white males grew up watching base or listening to baseball on the radio in the 50s and that's where they became big fans. And so that's where they have to

Chad (19:48.385)
Mm-hmm.

Chad (19:57.207)
Mm-hmm.

Chad (20:07.671)
Mm.

Jasper (20:07.682)
Mm-hmm.

Brian (20:10.983)
counter that because those folks are passing away, are moving on, right? And so, yeah, I mean, but look at it. we're, I mean, look at Colin Kaepernick kneeling in an NFL football game, right? They uproar over that. White males, predominantly, right? Upset. Media companies, predominantly owned by white males. Constantly looking for the great white hope. Constantly looking for the white guy in the NBA that can play well, right? That can really compete and do well.

Chad (20:24.385)
Mm-hmm.

Brian (20:39.791)
In the NFL, same thing. A white guy doing really well is completely different than a Lamar Jackson playing quarterback with the Buccaneers, the Ravens in Baltimore. The greatest player we have in the game right now, and he's not celebrated nearly enough as a white guy in the same position was, or as Tom Brady was before. And take granted, Tom Brady won some Super Bowls too, but this for me, and this is a bigger topic, but.

Chad (21:02.305)
Mm-hmm.

Brian (21:06.841)
Race and racism infects every part of our society. Everywhere it's affected. Now, it's different in other countries. It's different in Europe. It's different in Africa. It's different in Asia. But the race and racism, the desire for some reason to feel like I have to be better than somebody else is a problem we have as human beings. we, unfortunately, in the United States, we are probably one of the worst at it. And then that's too bad.

Chad (21:14.027)
Mm-hmm.

Chad (21:34.995)
It's also the narrative real quick story. So who told Colin Kaepernick to take a knee? A white dude, a white dude, Nate, yes, Nate Boyer. He was actually one of my soldiers that went through, through, yeah, basic training. Yep. So, so there you go. Yes. All these great stories. but yeah, I mean, so it's, lot of it has to do with the narrative, right? We, whether we're talking about immigration, whether we talking about

Brian (21:41.895)
peacefully take a knee. That's right, a military dude.

Brian (21:48.963)
no way.

Jasper (21:49.875)
No way. Wait and lame drop chat. That's a great transition. Go on.

Jasper (22:00.397)
Mm-mm.

Chad (22:04.171)
You know, who's the greatest of all time, so on and so forth. Everybody looks at themselves. And, and unfortunately, you know, we need to be looking as a melting pot around as the differences is that's what makes us stronger, at least, you know, here in the U S that's,

Brian (22:18.767)
That's right. And again, the big pink elf in the room, we're two weeks away from the election here, domestically in the United States. This is Donald Trump's playbook. That's who he plays to, is that older white supremacist male that wants only white people, no Jewish folks, no people of color, no people from other countries. They can come from Norway, according to Donald Trump, but nobody from Africa, nobody from other areas. this, they call it nationalistic, this hyper-

Chad (22:25.526)
Yeah.

Brian (22:47.941)
racial hyper white supremacist belief has dominated the world, unfortunately, because unfortunately, white males feel like they have to dominate people versus working in partnership. But that's a whole different story. But it's it's definitely tied in here as to why Shohei Otani is not getting the as much credit as he deserves, which is crazy because you get a lot of credit now with the World Series. It will help with that. Help with that. Hopefully he has a good one. Hopefully it's a good World Series.

Jasper (23:15.309)
That's, that's the one thing I wanted to say. He's not won a world series, which is, which for some reason, like even when was Tom Brady to me, I couldn't care much for Tom Brady because I was a Jets fan still am, but anyway, let's not let's please not delve into that. anyway, it is very much to do with the team environment and the team successes. If Tom Brady had done what he'd done in terms of statistics and he would not have won a Superbowl. Are we still talking about him in the same sense? Like, sure.

Brian (23:44.391)
Well, it's a great point because there's a difference, right? That's right. There's a difference because Derek Jeter has won a lot of World Series, but he's not really in the conversation of greatest player all time. Now he was fantastic and he could be maybe on the fringe of that conversation, but you know, he won a lot. So great point, Jasper. Winning a lot is separate thing, right? Because Tom Brady, he wins Super Bowls, but he didn't set the world on fire as far as skills.

Jasper (23:45.227)
He won seven. That's I can't say anything about that. Yeah.

Jasper (23:58.155)
He was good, yeah.

Chad (24:01.153)
Mm-hmm.

Brian (24:13.319)
and stats to your point. So that's a whole different conversation. So Shohei is, know, Michael Jordan was setting the world on fire before he won all those championships. So LeBron James before he won the championship was still the best player in the game, best player and top two of ever within the NBA. So anyway, yeah, it's a great conversation. It's a really interesting dynamic that he's bringing to the World Series and it's gonna be fun to watch.

Chad (24:32.716)
Yeah.

Chad (24:40.904)
But a player doesn't make a team. And I think that's, that's, that's your big point there. Right. So, yeah. So, so take a look at, take a look at Shohei, right. And, and as you know, a player and, as a, as a scout on, your side, you know, how, how deep do you look into how that player will impact the team in the locker room and the dugout?

Jasper (24:45.537)
Yeah, because look at the angels, they never did anything.

Chad (25:08.405)
versus just being a great player because you've talked about how somebody jumps off a page, right? They can jump off a page and be a real toxic team member, right? So how did you look at that? Did you look at that? And others who weren't major league baseball players like yourself, but they were scouts, did they factor that into? Because that's important.

Brian (25:28.135)
Yeah, it's a great point. think it's one of the Achilles heel of the analytics generation we're in, where the analytics guys are able to do very well and very talented in reading the numbers and very talented in being able to ask the computer to do the work of crunching the numbers. Now put that same analytics person on the field and ask them to coach a team, ask them to evaluate every player on the team and give a documented report.

Chad (25:34.635)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Chad (25:44.972)
Mm.

Brian (25:56.647)
of exactly what they can do and cannot do, that would be something they're not good at. So there's a need for that baseball eyes on the talent to your point, to your question, Chad. So yeah, so for me, not every good scout was a former player. That doesn't have to be a prerequisite. It helps, but it doesn't have to be. Theo Epstein, we've talked about before here. He's going to be in the Hall of Fame. He was taught early on, as I've mentioned before.

Jasper (26:05.773)
Mm-hmm.

Chad (26:15.575)
Mm-hmm.

Brian (26:26.779)
He was taught early on how to evaluate and that was able to compliment his skills. Billy Beane, the general manager of the Oakland A's for a long time and president of the Oakland A's. He knows both. He played and he also was very good in analytics. but getting to your question finally, cause my too long answer chat, sorry about that. But I, big brother Jasper is watching.

Jasper (26:43.735)
Hehehehehe

Chad (26:45.203)
I love it, Brian. No, Jasper's the only one who doesn't. I love it. You just keep talking.

Brian (26:53.079)
I did, I tried to look at how the teammates responded to him, right? Because you can't be in there, you can't tell what's being said, but you can see how players respond to them. I used to Cam Newton, quarterback of the Carolina Panthers. Amazing talent, but he looks like an idiot on the field. Why? Because everybody's staying away from him. He wants to celebrate and do everything. It just always seemed to be about him. I used to always watch his teammates and how they responded to him. They're just like,

Chad (26:56.895)
Mm hmm. Yeah. Yeah.

Jasper (26:58.189)
That's it.

Jasper (27:05.517)
Mmm.

Chad (27:06.275)
yeah. Yeah. huh.

Jasper (27:16.813)
Mm-hmm.

Chad (27:16.823)
Mm-hmm.

Brian (27:22.181)
Yeah, whatever. And honestly, we were kind of that way with Barry. Barry wasn't a great teammate. He's a great player. Barry Bonds wasn't a great teammate. Tony Gwynn was a good teammate. He wasn't a great teammate. So, you know, there's a there's a number of different categories there, but I think you pay attention to how people respond to them, what their mannerisms are on the field. Is it all about them, which is OK. There's nothing wrong with, you know, putting your brand out there or celebrating something that you did with your team. OK, nothing wrong with that.

Chad (27:27.297)
Mm-hmm.

Chad (27:41.463)
Mm-hmm.

Chad (27:49.356)
Mm-hmm.

Brian (27:50.343)
But when it's all about you, everything you say, it's you. if you speak in the third person, right? When all that you do, that's what, know, Deion Sanders is so interesting for me. Cause he came across as that type of guy. But when you got to know him, he wasn't, he was very much about the team. So it's a fine line. It's tough to find out, but I think a good scout, I don't know necessarily that I was a good scout, but a good scout would look at everything, everything, whether it's business or sports.

Jasper (27:56.405)
Hehehehehe

Brian (28:19.569)
They will look at the whole picture of the person and give that information to whoever needs to hear it.

Chad (28:24.715)
Well, here's another hard question for sports and then also for the office, know, building, mean, thriving teams. Can you build a successful team, a world series team without that superstar, that A player? Can you have nothing but, but B teamers that are amazing at, at, at teamwork and doing the job together? Can you win a world series? Can you go, can you have

a huge brand do that with a ton of great team players, but without that superstar.

Jasper (29:00.813)
That's a great, tie because otherwise Brian's going to talk for another 10 minutes. To answer, try and answer your question. I think you can, but I think it's rare. I think we've seen plenty of successes because that's what we're trying to do with talent chasing, right? We're trying to learn from those sports worlds and trying to see where we can implement it in the corporate. And you've got the sort of Leicester cities of the world who won the premier league where there's no one expected them to win the premier league. They weren't the best team.

Chad (29:05.451)
Yeah

Brian (29:05.585)
you

Chad (29:12.588)
Yeah.

Jasper (29:28.599)
They didn't have the best individual players, but probably, probably were the best team with that in that year, because they played together. and you've got, think the sport that, that I, I would say is, is most, that's most applicable to is probably NHL ice hockey. I watch a fair bit of that. And I'm a big fan of the Winnipeg jets, cause you've got to stick with the jets when you, when it you're a jet fan. and they've, they've got a sort of nucleus of the same guys for about four or five years. And you can see clearly that this just, it's a team it's gelled. It's a team.

Brian (29:48.743)
hehe

Chad (29:53.932)
Mm-hmm.

Jasper (29:58.763)
Have they got the absolute best players in the world? Probably not because Colin McDavid is not a Winnipeg Jets athlete, but they've got a great nucleus that does well every year. They reach the playoffs pretty much every year. They haven't won the Stanley Cup, but they're right in the midst of it every year. I would say for me, can, there's the occasional time when you just win with B players, but it's like the Dodgers without Shoa Eutani are probably not in the World Series.

Chad (30:22.283)
Mm-hmm.

Jasper (30:28.279)
That's to give the clearest answer because I don't think they're in the World Series without him.

Chad (30:31.841)
Wait, what do you think Brian?

Brian (30:34.887)
Yeah, it's a good call. hard to come behind Jasper and that explanation, but I'll, I'll give it a shot. I would say in business, you can't, I think you can have a B team and be number one in business. I think that's, I think you can do that because B, B level talent is not bad. It's not C, it's not D, it's not F. B level talent is still pretty darn good. It's still above, way above average. So I think in business, you can't all day long in sports, you need the talent.

Jasper (30:40.845)
you

Chad (30:48.033)
Mm-hmm.

Jasper (30:58.528)
true.

Brian (31:04.475)
to be able to compete at that level along with the teamwork. So to both of your points, think we've seen it a number of times, not all the times that we're able to, if you want to be number one, if you want to win, the key is again, coming from a scouting background, can you anticipate who may be a B player now who will be an A player? Because when you're watching the World Series now, watching the playoffs these days, some of these guys are perceived as B talent.

Chad (31:28.375)
Mm.

Brian (31:32.507)
But because of how they perform in the World Series, they get notched up to a low A or they get notched up to an A. So there's opportunity there. You got to be able to read the human potential, be able to read the athletic potential, read the mental potential, because you got to be smart, right? Can't be running around nowadays, can't be running around all night, all day, all night, and then expect to play well in the game the next day, right? So there has to be some strategy. can't, huh?

Chad (31:43.319)
Mm-hmm.

Chad (31:55.059)
I got show up on the big stage, right? It's the big stage at this point. mean, Major League Baseball is the big stage, but when you get to this level, the world's yeah. mean, this to me. Mm hmm. Yeah.

Jasper (32:02.655)
The biggest stage,

Brian (32:05.317)
Right, but if you are addicted to gambling, if you're addicted to alcohol, it doesn't really matter, does it? So we had the Oakland Raiders, my team, right? I grew up with the eve of the Super Bowl when we were playing the Tampa Bay Buccaneers. I don't remember what year it was. Rich Gannon was our quarterback. One of our best players was hanging out. think the Super Bowl was in San Diego that year. One of our best players was in Mexico running around drinking and having a great time. To like five in the morning, the night of the Super Bowl.

Chad (32:14.426)
huh.

Chad (32:27.191)
Mm-hmm.

Brian (32:34.629)
And we got blown out the next day. So it's a little bit personal, personal, personal scar there. Not a good time. It's kind of like the New York Jets with Jasper, but not quite as bad.

Chad (32:38.707)
Not a great teammate.

Jasper (32:40.405)
Not a great teammate,

low blow just not necessary

Chad (32:45.788)
you

No, we need an entirely different episode to talk about Aaron Rodgers and everything that's going on right now. So we're just going to shut that down.

Brian (32:55.747)
yes, we

Jasper (32:55.799)
Probably not. I'll probably- I'll probably- I'm just gonna bump my head into something and say I'm concussed again, because I'm not- I don't fancy that discussion.

Brian (33:03.163)
Yeah, and a good discussion. I want to do Colin Kaepernick, whatever, 15 years later. I think that'd be fun to revisit of all the things that have come after that peaceful knee protest. What's that?

Chad (33:09.035)
Yeah.

Chad (33:12.439)
With all your strings, we should be able to get him on. So with all your strings that you can pull, we might get him on.

Jasper (33:18.689)
Yeah, why is he not on yet, Brian?

Brian (33:19.904)
Ooh, he putting pressure on me, I don't know.

Chad (33:21.639)
huh. Yeah.

Jasper (33:23.157)
You thrive on the pressure, mate. You need a bit of pressure.

Chad (33:27.563)
Well, listener, thanks again for joining us for this breakdown session. Look for more amazing interviews, play-by-play breakdowns, great interviews. I mean, just go to Talent Chasing and go ahead and click that subscribe button. Tell all your friends, all your families, and we will see you back on your favorite podcast platform sometime soon. Thanks guys.